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What do you think the Fusion Dance multiplier is?
Topic Started: Feb 12 2017, 08:22 PM (1,403 Views)
Dear Leader
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Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7
Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead
Goku: "I coulda used Fusion..."
Dende: "Fusion...! Merging together, right? That's the specialty art of the people of Planet Metamor!"
Goku: "So you know about it, Dende...! That's right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art...It's a merging technique which can only be performed if two people are fairly close in both power and body size... In other words, by having two people merge into one, they're able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn't be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [...] I was just taught the art, but I ain't never tested it out... There wasn't anybody on par with me in the afterlife..."


I'm thinking A + B x 10 works nicely. I can't take the credit for it, because I saw it suggested on another forum, but I really like it.

Base Goku10Base Goten4
SSJ Goku500Base Trunks4
SSJ2 Goku1000Base Gotenks80
SSJ3 Goku4000SSJ Gotenks (Pre)4000

What do you think?
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+ Pyrus
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I've seen that formula since 2008. I've used it before as well.

Nowadays it's clearly just a plot multiplier to me. Nothing static.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Fusion doesn't any sort of static multiplier or formula.
Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Feb 12 2017, 08:54 PM.
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+ Kaboom
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I don't think there is such a thing as a single, predictable "Fusion formula." I think the result of the Fusion can change a lot based on how compatible the two individuals performing it are.

Toriyama's said that just about anyone, even dissimilar people, can still perform Fusion although it'd be very difficult for them to get in-sync enough. Which leads me to believe that the rules and prerequisites for Fusion that Goku originally described are actually what's required for the Fusion to be any good and significantly more powerful than its parts.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Kaboom
Feb 12 2017, 10:00 PM
I don't think there is such a thing as a single, predictable "Fusion formula." I think the result of the Fusion can change a lot based on how compatible the two individuals performing it are.

Toriyama's said that just about anyone, even dissimilar people, can still perform Fusion although it'd be very difficult for them to get in-sync enough. Which leads me to believe that the rules and prerequisites for Fusion that Goku originally described are actually what's required for the Fusion to be any good and significantly more powerful than its parts.
Why did Goku even provide an estimation of the fusion's power in the first place if there wasn't some kind of static boost?
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Dankness Lava
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Dankness Forever

What was his estimation exactly?
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OmegaSaiyan2
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¿?

Plot. the boost is never static.

Z: it made SSJ Gotenks stronger than SSJ3 Goku. but the Kids after training two weeks in the rosat, made their fusion that strong that not even SSJ3 Goku could defeat Base Gotenks does that mean the boost is not static? that means is over 400x. at least.

GT: dozens (or tens, depends in the traduction) stronger than individuals.
Edited by OmegaSaiyan2, Feb 12 2017, 10:19 PM.
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+ Pyrus
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O Me Ga'd
Feb 12 2017, 10:11 PM
What was his estimation exactly?
Someone "definitely" strong enough to defeat Fat Boo, someone "stronger than [Goku]."
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Dear Leader
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Darn it, I should've been more specific. When I say Fusion Dance multiplier, I mean as it pertains specifically to Gotenks. Like, I'm asking what you guys think the multiplier is which ends up in Gotenks being stronger than Goten and Trunks put together. I didn't intend to include GT and Gogeta in the scope of the topic.

So, specifically about Gotenks - don't you guys think A + B x 10 is perfect? SSJ Gotenks (Pre) and SSJ3 Goku being in the same ballpark fits nicely, as does Goten and Trunks being a 4 to Goku's 10.
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+ Pyrus
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Dear Leader
Feb 12 2017, 10:29 PM
Darn it, I should've been more specific. When I say Fusion Dance multiplier, I mean as it pertains specifically to Gotenks. Like, I'm asking what you guys think the multiplier is which ends up in Gotenks being stronger than Goten and Trunks put together. I didn't intend to include GT and Gogeta in the scope of the topic.

So, specifically about Gotenks - don't you guys think A + B x 10 is perfect? SSJ Gotenks (Pre) and SSJ3 Goku being in the same ballpark fits nicely, as does Goten and Trunks being a 4 to Goku's 10.
While it does at first, it doesn't do justice to post-RoSaT Gotenks' power.
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Dankness Lava
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Pyrus
Feb 12 2017, 10:17 PM
O Me Ga'd
Feb 12 2017, 10:11 PM
What was his estimation exactly?
Someone "definitely" strong enough to defeat Fat Boo, someone "stronger than [Goku]."
Yeah... that doesn't mean static boost. Just guaranteed to be a great one.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

O Me Ga'd
Feb 12 2017, 10:36 PM
Pyrus
Feb 12 2017, 10:17 PM
O Me Ga'd
Feb 12 2017, 10:11 PM
What was his estimation exactly?
Someone "definitely" strong enough to defeat Fat Boo, someone "stronger than [Goku]."
Yeah... that doesn't mean static boost. Just guaranteed to be a great one.
It still means that he knows it's going to be stronger than Boo, and there's no way of him being confident in that unless there's, at the very least, a minimum boost.
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Dankness Lava
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Dankness Forever

That makes sense. But static? I think there's plenty of wiggle room generally speaking.
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Vertical
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A static, unchanging formula... may result in a varying boost overall.

For example, what I've used for a while that works for me and my beliefs***:

Lowest Base x 200
3 / (2 ^ Distractions)


The "distractions" variable would include "being transformed" or "suppressing energy".

So, for example, [Pre-RoSaT] Base Gotenks would have 1 distraction (Trunks suppressing to match Goten), while [Pre-RoSaT] SSJ Gotenks would have 3 (Trunks suppressing, Trunks maintaining transformation, Goten maintaining transformation).


***My beliefs include:
- The more in-sync and focused on the fusion two people are, the better the fusion result
- [Pre-RoSaT] Base Gotenks being superior to Majin Vegeta
- [Pre-RoSaT] SSJ Gotenks being slightly superior to SSJ3 Goku
- [Post-RoSaT] Base Gotenks being superior to [Pre-RoSaT] SSJ Gotenks
- Goten gaining on Trunks while in the RoSaT
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superperfectnerd
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I have it about 60x boost for for Goten or Trunks individually from the dance and 80x boost for Goku and Vegeta individually from the Potara but I'm a lowballer when it comes to power levels.

I have Goten and Trunks much weaker than Goku and Vegeta and I only have pre-ROSAT ssj Gotenks about 1.5 Majin Vegeta and only about 25% stronger post-ROSAT. The majority of his power increase comes from ssj2 and ssj3.
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